July 2019: I noticed a small amount of coolant under the car from time to time, after parking.
So looking for the cause, and as a precaution, I immediately replaced the water pump housing, thermostat, lower hoses and water pump.
Also replaced all gaskets, cleaned the surfaces, checked all hoses optically and so on.
After fitting, first tested the cooling system with a pressure kit and left it pressurized overnight. No leakage. The action seems to have been successful.
Update 3-2021: After this action, it appears that there is still a little coolant under the car when I have driven a bit after which the car has been parked overnight. While driving, the car does not seem to lose anything.
It seems that as the car cools down, it builds up so much pressure in the cooling system that there is leakage that does not occur while driving. Possibly the expansion and contraction of the engine parts has something to do with this and the contraction after driving could possible cause the extra pressure. Apparently the radiator cap is not the solution to this problem. This cap should open at a certain pressure and allow some of the compressed air at the top of the radiator to escape. That this principle does work is clear because the catcher at the bottom of the overpressure hose which is mounted at the radiator cap does catch coolant when I have incidentally overfilled the radiator slightly.
In the meantime, I have ordered an overpressure vessel to mount in the cooling circuit to better compensate for the pressure, and a mechanical pressure regulator and valve to adjust this cooling system to a pleasant maximum pressure. I hope this will stop the cooling system from leaking.
[Best_Wordpress_Gallery id=”57″ gal_title=”Waterpump and -housing renewed ID/DS”]
I bought the car early 2008 as a Berline version, in running condition.
But- after my initial maintenance and repairs the MOT proved a lot of problems with the chassis, lights, brakes, steering and so on.
So- the following month I repaired the car and made it ready for the MOT (In The Netherlands this is called the APK).
After this was all done, I restored the car best I could and used the car for about 5 years as my family car. We went on summer- and winter holidays with the 6 of us to Germany and France, a couple of times and I used the car mostly for the weekends since I also had a company car for work related traffic.
But- the weather conditions in our country caused quite some rust problems for the ID20 and I decided then to get the car more permanently in my garage and I bought me a more fitting car as private car.
Later I restored the ID20 fully, paneled the doors, repaired the boot and the underneath of the car, longerons, front and rear fenders and so on. Basically, it was all plating repair.
Then, in 2016, I decided to get the car rebuilt to converible by a well-known Dutch cabrio builder, Oord DS cabrio in Zwaag. This took a big part of the winter of 2016-2017. The rebuild also included a new license for the car, with an original Convertible ID20 model on the (Dutch) license at the same (old) license numbers..
After this, I made a lot of improvements to the car like a new roof, from an early Audi 80, a refurbished HD pump, new waterpump and refurbished waterpump housing, new refurbished steering rack, upgraded the airco with new condensor and dryer, refurbished airco pump and so on.
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA
And- right now (2021-9) I am taking the car apart again to get everything overhauled. Fenders, hood, boot, inside, chairs, bench, plating, engine, gearbox, drive shaft, suspension, steering, and so on. This is now more of a cosmetic overhaul BUT everything will be taken out, checked and overhauled if needed, and back in this winter. New leather is already underway at Eelco Schuurman’s shop for the ID chairs, new carpeting is araedy available and so on on the inside, the door panels will get renewed (also by Eelco Schuurman) , the car will get a nice new red paint and so on.
The process of this is also available on this website in ENGLISH
Started today September 1, 2021 the complete makeover of the Citroën ID20 originally converted to convertible by Oord in 2016.
This was the car at the (pre-) last round of paint (primer) in 2018:
And- this time the color will be RED:
The exterior of the car will be completely dismantled, all sheet metal will be removed and where necessary, made tidy.
The original stainless steel Pallas wheel covers will be replaced, the plastic (2CV) spoke covers will be removed.
The front bumper has been disassembled and is being polished. The rear bumper will be replaced for a newly purchased extended convertible bumper, also already completely polished.
The roof will be completely recalibrated and the cover plate of the roof will be covered with Sonneland fabric. The black Sonneland cover is fitted with the typical push buttons.
The original 1966 Citroën ID tilt front seats go to the upholsterer and new black leather is fitted.
All loose parts are removed from the car, then the car is tightened. First coarse sanding, 2k primer, contrast spraying, medium sanding, fine sanding and then to the painter.
Oh yes, the air conditioning will be removed. That is very superfluous on a convertible and I can also remove the extra radiator of the airco that sits in front of the cooling water radiator. That saves on originality!
And that ugly antenna goes off at the same time! I have a reinforced antenna that goes on the inside of the windshield. On the right side. That is hardly visible and very easy to hide in terms of cabling, and close to the radio! And this antenna can be used for DAB+ at the same time.
The car will be tomato red RAL 2013. The professional (Basf) Glasurit 2K paint, hardener and thinner is already in stock! The inside, side, bottom and top of all sheet metal parts will also be painted red. The inside of the trunk, doors and doorposts will be red as well.
After painting, finally the by then re-upholstered seats can be put in and all new grey NOS carpet parts can be mounted.
The trunk lining can then be put in as well, and then all the external parts that were previously removed and either refurbished or replaced can be fitted.
Specifications: 4-cylinder in-line ID20 with 2.3 liter engine, two-stage carburetor and original electronic ignition. Air conditioning (manual). Manual sunroof. 4-person, 2-door version. LPG installation on the license plate. Last 2 years renewed: Water pump, alternator, hydraulic pump and fuel pump (All precautionary).
The intention is to put the car up for sale in the spring of 2022, to make room for a next project.
A P1800S with 1970-1973 build and overdrive would be a nice idea.
Or building a mehari yourself with one of those French replica mehari kits, or maybe stripping a 2CV and then using a fresh chassis and the old 2CV stuff to build the body of a Mehari.
Well, as long as petrol cars are still allowed to drive around, I can continue with the hobby for a while….
Update September 3, 2021: Completely emptied the front fenders, and removed all the tar and tectyl. Ordered a new replacement plate (left mounting eye was a bit baked on, will be made neat again with a new eye and replacement plate in the inner fender. . Fender edge will also be repaired).
The headlight housings will be cream colored again, they are black now. There are already new headlight mirrors in them so that saves some time.
The front wings were completely cleaned on the inside and underneath and then put in grey hammerite.
On the wheel arch side, there will be a black colored protective polyester coating. in my experience, that is the only way to protect the inside in our wet country with all kinds of gravel and other debris on the road.
In the rear, I previously installed aftermarket aluminum mud trays for protection in the inner fenders.
I completely disassembled the front bumper and replacement (very good NOS) sheet metal parts were arranged. The air horns were bad and the rest of the bumper connecting sheet metal was pretty bad too.
Oude plaatwerk tussen en achter de voorbumper
The license plate holder is also immediately replaced for a NOS one. The bottom of the licence plate holder has also become a bit too thin.
I had replaced the stone trap for a polyester type much earlier, so that will come off but it will also go back on after the underside has been cleaned, painted in the right color (same as the body) and the plating on the bottom has received a black anti-corrosion treatment.
The engine and gearbox, drive shafts, suspension and wheel bearings will be overhauled this winter, so these will also be taken out completely so that I can access the chassis properly.
I have to check if the threaded bushings in the chassis where the double front suspension is mounted are still in place. 14 years ago one bushing on the right side was welded again, but only on the outside because the engine was still there. Now that everything is going to be taken out anyway, I can do the inspection on this point at the same time.
After the front wings, it is time for the doors. I am going to saw off the bottom so that the normal size of an original convertible door in terms of height remains. Then I’m going to weld the doors shut and finish them off. The body near the doors will be widened to the outside of the door so that a wider sill becomes visible on the outside below the doors. In this way the bodywork under the doors continues from the front near the A-pillar to the rear. The yet to be purchased lower decorative strips then run from the A-pillar to the rear reflector in one go.
Lengthening the doors is not an issue, because the first Chapron models were also executed with the original size of the front doors. Nice excuse not to do that with my convertible either. In terms of boarding, there is not much improvement. With the new old handle seats, the backrests can easily be moved forward, if anyone would want to ride in the back. Besides, it is far too much work to have all the windows made anew, moving the B-pillar I see as possible but also a shame to open everything again now that everything fits nicely.
THE SPUITWORK
Because painting is a profession, I’ve been looking for a paint booth that can be rented near the garage and the workshop of the ID20 convertible. But it turns out to be difficult just to rent a space for half a day. Since I do all the prep work myself and already have the paint and such in stock, there is little to be gained for the rental company. I also take my own sprayers with me. And, if necessary, also the compressor and dehumidifier.
So it will probably come down to me spraying the car in my own garage. In preparation, I have already made the suction in the existing recesses in the outer wall, and the filter can easily be placed against that. Heating comes from 3 electric radiant heaters that can be attached to the ceiling, of the type outdoor heater.
The suction of the compressor comes from under the greenhouse, which is completely covered. In the pressure line there is a dehumidifier, in the spray room the dehumidifier is on continuously before spraying and I spray HVLP with about 2 Bar.
Lighting from the ceiling is arranged with 8 fixed LED fixtures, from the side also 8 LED x 120cm LED fixtures are placed, with cold white light 6800K.
Before spraying with the Glasurit 2K lacquer, I cover both the ceiling and walls and floor with plastic so that dust has no chance. The extraction and suction of air goes through filter boxes. I get my own air for inhalation from outside through a long 34 mm hose. During spraying, all doors are unlocked and there is always someone around. The compressor is outside the spray room so the overpressure must be able to get outside through the filter box and the fans in the wall. I don’t expect much spray with the low spray pressure and the electrostatic preload on the car. So also in terms of breathing I don’t think I’ll have any problems but as a precaution I prefer to get my own air clean from outside.
The garage is 3.5 by 5.5 meters and now that all the stuff from the garage is in the greenhouse, I can easily walk around the ID20. So the spraying should also be easy. I plan on when spraying it to do the inside of all things like doors, screens, tailgate etc first and then the outside. Since I disassemble all rubbers BEFORE spraying, I can just close the doors and lid after spraying the inside and continue spraying in one pass.
First layer with 5-10% thinner and the second layer after 15 minutes just pure. The third layer goes after 30 minutes with 5% thinner and the last layer after 45 minutes with 10% thinner.
This (already 12 years old) Glasurit paint does NOT need clear coat to get a good shine and because of the thickness of the paintjob I can always clean/polish the car for an even better finish!
Picked up from Daniel Q yesterday with many thanks again, also for the tea!
2 air hoods and spacer, connector and front bumper mounting brackets. Partly NOS, partly used and in good condition.
Replacement outside handle for the left door
2 window cranks
2 Mudflaps original rubbers for the front fenders
2 stainless steel inserts to be mounted behind the inside door handles
Various DS small parts
The license plate holder I already had as spare. The one I took off of the car is no longer usable.
New nicely polished convertible bumper, everything on the inside has been redone as well. The spider-bumper holders are nicely refurbished and preserved. Costs something and you have something right away!
Took out bad parts of the 2nd hand air horns so new sheet metal could be welded in. The happers were blasted and then treated with zinc spray.
The spare license plate holder has been neatly flattened.
And primedJust a quick fit
Ordered today 5-9-2021:
New suspension eye for L front screen
8 x LED 120cm fixtures at ibood with 6400 Kelvin bulbs for the side van de garageand behind a few more existing emitters, light is everything when you are sanding and plastering!
The rail holders of the tilt front seats
Left door panel, stripped. I will probably use these panels again. The plastic replicated panels seem to be too floppy anyway, and deform too easily.
2021-09-24: This morning my new sheet metal ordered from Cit’art for the left door of my DIY Citroën ID/DS 1970 convertible was delivered: A half door plate and a 3-piece inner tray.
For my ID Berline, I’ve previously fitted doors with new half outer plates and door trays a few times so by now I know roughly how to go about this. Because the Citroën ID/DS has not been very dimensionally stable over the years (understatement!), there is one thing you should always remember: Always fit the tray and then the door plate AT THE CAR and don’t make it all pretty on the workbench only to find out later that the door doesn’t fit!
I might be going a bit far as most people assemble the door body on the workbench and then place the half door plate on the car, but I first align the door body properly using the removed plate as a jig and then weld the new door body in place with a few dots. Then fit it to the car, possibly aligning it with the hinge points attached to door and car so that the top and side top and middle are perfectly between front screen and rear door/ Perfect means here: In the same place as BEFORE this action.
If everything is as desired, also try it on with the door plate. If something doesn’t fit, measure the difference in height or depth and remove the door. On the workbench: Loosen the welds where necessary and correct what is needed. Place the door back in the car and repeat previous steps until everything fits perfectly.
Another important tip: The side pieces of the turret can be placed in different ways: On the intermediate plate, under the intermediate plate or partially under and over it. I now choose to make the side pieces fit exactly to the door and NOT weld any plate at these side pieces on top of each other. That means you won’t see a transition when you open the door. I like that better and it gives less chance of rotting in the future between the places where sheet overlaps. There’s always going to be moisture in between there. By the way, I did have the half door plate and the tray intermediate piece cross over where these plates are welded to the old door. This also has to do with sturdiness, but it is also almost impossible to finish neatly when you don’t want the overlap. Moreover, you can easily seal this overlap with special seam sealer.
The pictures speak for themselves!
UPDATE 1-2022:
I finally made time to complete the welding on the left door mid of January, 2022. First, I put the electric heaters in the garage on for a couple of hours, and then I welded the inside part of the new plating fully to the inside of the door. I also welded tags every 3 cm on the seem in the inner part of the door. After this, I grinded all down so it will later be invisible, at least on the inside of the door since this will not be covered by anything.
Then, I put the door back in the car, put a lock in and set the door at the correct height- and depth. Then, I fitted the outer plate on the door and adjusted the cutout and the inner angle of the plate I earlier welded on the inside. Also- the sides were adjusted and I ended up cutting some 4mm from the rear plate’s lower horizontal part. The outer parts was just too low for about 4mm. I also had to get 4mm off the cutout of the existing door plate.
I took all parts off that were in the way or made the new plate stick up. Then, I spotwelded the new plate at its final position. After this, I took the door with spotwelded plate out, put it on the welding table and used spotwelds every 5cm (2inch) at first, cooling the welded work with compressed air and moved on to slowly weld around until everything was closed. Then, I tapped the edges at the bottom, left end right around until it almost closed (used thin sheeting to prevent them from getting too tight). Grinded the weds nicely off, all aound and putthe sinc spray everywhere, including inside the door.
Remounted the door and it all fits beautifuly.
Some mudworks still to do, but that’s all for later!
Welding tip: I use a Gebora 160 MIG machine with 0.6mm wire and mixed gas. I use the following settings for spotwelding: wire speed to 6 and power is set at 2, that is the 2nd position of max 6. I found that spotwelding sheet metal when oe of the sheets is around 0.6-0.8 mm,, the setting of power 1 is just not enough to get a spotweld that sinks a bit in, I always get uplifted welds, also if I lessen the wire speed. But- at power 2, all goes well. Welding the Citroen’s plating can, however, NOT be done at position 2. That burns right through the thin plating.
Actually, that is the main reason I always use a bit thicker repair plate so I can at least make decent connecting welds. You do have to start the spotweld from the thick plate and then move gently just towards the thin palte and stop. There’s just no other way to do this, imho.
Now, the welding is done. I also welded the connecting hooks of the front fenders already with new connecting pieces for mounting onto the chassis and that also turned out OK. Next chapter will be the finishing towards 2K primer, sanding and hopefully also painting!
[Best_Wordpress_Gallery id=”71″ gal_title=”Front door repair Citroën ID/DS 1970″]
Original ID20 chairs for the convertible are very hard to find, especially lately.
Fortunately, I have a complete set on stock with the front chairs side handle to fold the back forward, both left and right in the original brown leather version.
Also, I have the rear bench and back from the same donor ID (1965). The rear bench don’t fit in my 1970 ID20 convertible but the front chairs will fit nicely. I will get the car tomorrow out of the winter storage …erm, this will be done a little later,,, But- they will first be refurbished with black leather, The appointment is made for 2nd week of September. Will see when they are ready! Then, finally, I can take the temporary Volvo C70 chairs out. But only after all of the remaining issues are handled.
The issue list contains a full outside overhaul of the body, the coming fall and winter. Everything will be taken out and off- bumpers, mirrors, lights, windows et cetera. Then- sanding it down and making the body nice again.
Then, the inside will be done. A lot of work will be needed on the inside of the doors and on the side panels of the rear of the car. These panels are a combination of the donor panels from the Aui80 and some metal sheeting that I glued on these panels to fit the longer car. These need to become integrated side panels, and they need to be covered with black leather.
After that, a new paint job in racing red is foreseen for spring 2022.
Then, the car will be put together again and the new carpets, A-, B- pillar covers and so on for the interior will be put in.
And then, finally, the refurbished (old) front chairs will be put in where they belong!
De oorspronkelijke bruin leer rechter cabriostoelLeer verwijderd om als mal te dienen voor het nieuwe zwarte leerHet nieuwe zwarte leer gesnedenNieuwe geïmpregneerde deurpanelen gemaakt
Meaning, I now (May, 2023) have the old Citroën Traction Avant 11BN occupying space in my garage. The Traction Avant is ready to drive, and with the 4-gear gearbox, in combination with the ID19 engine, this car is quite roadworthy.
I should really drive this car more, it is almost always just sitting in the garage…
